Dear people,

I would like to start with saying sorry that this message is in English. However, I'm not able to communicate in French and I'm hoping that some of you could help me nevertheless. I'm looking for information about the supravox 285gmf + B&C 250 1 pouce pavillon combination. I know that some people overhere have heard these speakers or even own these speakers. I have 2 supravox 285gmf drivers and the above mentioned speakers are maybe interesting for me to build. Unfortunatly I cannot find much information in English. Let me post some basic questions first

* what do you think of these speakers, are they good? what is good about them, what is bad about them?
* how is the integration between the woofer and the horn? how is the coherency? can you hear the crossover?
* the crossover is at 500Hz, while B&C recommends 1600Hz
* is the sound coloured? (hornlike sound?)
* how small is the sweet spot?
* are there better horns and compression drivers for this price?

etc etc, as you can see they are basic questions. (I have muh more questions )I'm currently listening to the fostex FE167E in MLTL. They are good speakers, but especially for acoustic and small jazz music. They have problems with big orchestra and rock and dance music (I have a very broad taste) That is why I want to build speakers that are a more allround and much better than my 167e speakers. However, I'm afraid that I will loose coherency with the horns and 285 driver? I have no experience with compression loaded horns and do not know what to expect?

I know that "Diafan" uses these speakers and also have open baffle speakers with a supravox full range driver? I hope that he can shares his thoughts with me. I'm curious how the speakers compare. I also know that several forum members have listened to these speakers at Diafan's place so I'm also curious what their opinions are. (I know this from very kind and helpfull people at the Cin&Son forum, Phil* and Fab were so kind to help me with my questions.)

Very kind regards,

Jacob

Hello Jacob,
I think Diafan knows these speakers well. If he isn't able to communicate in english I will try to translate.

-edit- I think I read too fast your post ... you've already noticed Diafan ... :)

Hello lagroute,

That would be very very kind of you. I'm sure that with help of people like you my questions will be answered Than I will be able to decide if I will take the risk and build these speakers, they are quite expensive, so that is why I'm doing this research.

kind regards,

Jacob

Hello, Jacob

First, I have to apologize for keeping silent after the email you sent me a few weeks ago.
I did intend to answer, but I couldn't do it at that time, and I forgot afterwards!

As my two hifi systems use the same enclosures, ie Supravox 285 and B&C DE25 drivers mounted on Supravox horns, it is not so easy for me
to be unbiased and to compare serenely the sound I get with others's. In fact, I seldom listen to other systems, and my main interest lies in home manufacturing of valve amplifiers.

Nevertheless, I'd be surprised that such speakers would disappoint you in relation to the money you spend for them.
They are very dynamic and so weak an amplifier like a single ended 300B is enought to drive them.
As soon as you withdraw at about 2 meters, you can't hear the junction between the 285 and the horn.

Never mind for the frequency of the crossover. I first was surprised like you by this advice from Supravox which contradicts the B&C recommandations. In fact, it works quite fine! You have just to take care to the power applied to the driver. But in the case of a domestic use, you must fear no problem. I strictly used the passive crossover schematics recommended by Supravox.

The sound doesn't seem me coloured at all. But am I objective?
On the other end, the sweet spot is actually small enought, but not worse than other horns I used to listen to.

You can get better speakers, like TAD's, but the price is no longer the same!

I think that other members of this forum can tell plenty of other things on this subject. I hope that english language will not prevent them from expressing their opinion!

Patrice

Hello Patrice,

Thank you for your answer. I know it must be difficult for you to be objectiveas you have 2 of these speakers so you must love them for sure. I hope you understand my worries as the opinions about compression loaded horns are going from people that really dislike them to people that loves them. Eventhough you don't listen much to other speakers I learned from your site that you also have s supravox driver in an open baffle. How does the horn system compare to the supravox full range in open baffle? how does the coherence compares between them. Obviously you prefer the horns otherwise the full range speakers would be your main speakers?

You say the sweet spot is small, i do not have experience with horns so i wonder how small. e.g. with my fostex the sweet spot is also small, if i move my head 5 cm or so i already hear a difference, i was hoping this was better with the horns so that more people at the same time can enjoy the music?

I will drive the speakers with only with 10 watts or so, so I guess I do not have to worry about the low crossover. I do not listen that loud, I doubt that I will ever reach the 100dB level (If I'm getting peaks of 95dB I normaly already tend to start to be nervous that it is too loud

Uncoloured sound is very important for me, instruments and voices have to sound as realistic as possible, so I hope more people around here can comment on this.

I already want to thank people for taking the effort to resond in English, I really appriciate it, several months ago I was getting desperate as I could not find any info about these speakers.

kind regards,

jacob

salut Patrice,
j'ai trouvé Jacobus errant comme une âme en peine sur Cineson, je lui ai conseillé dans mon anglais de bric et de broc de te contacter ici.
je lui ai dit qu'il y avait un CR d'écoute chez toi sur le forum mais je ne l'ai pas retrouvé : surement disparu lors de l'attaque du site ou alors je me suis trompé de forum…
De mémoire je lui ai fait un résumé très succin de ce que j'avais retenu du CR : "natural without any emphasys, lively listening but no harshness or crispation. " j'en parle d'autant mieux que e n'ai pas écouté, l'école Delphi de "l'écoute à distance", tu avoueras que c'est quand même pas rien !

Content en tout cas qu'il ait pu trouver quelques réponses à ses questions.

Bonjour, Philippe

Il y a eu effectivement assez peu d'écoutes chez moi et encore moins de comptes rendus à part celui de Marc et Jean-Baptiste de Nantes, qui a sombré avec l'attaque du forum.

C'était pourtant le meilleur moyen pour Jacob d'avoir quelques avis, car je ne peux pas moi-même être totalement objectif.
Je suis très réservé quant à appliquer les préceptes Delphi de l'écoute à distance à un impétrant n'ayant jamais fréquenté ce forum

De plus, si l'anglais littéraire ne me pose aucun problème, je suis vite sec quand il s'agit d'utiliser le vocabulaire spécifique aux écoutes hifi, que je ne maîtrise déjà pas totalement en français!

Sur un autre sujet, je vais prendre livraison de mon MDF cintrable la semaine prochaine. Avec un peu de chance, première écoute de mes FE206E dans la foulée...

Patrice

C'était effectivement les deux "apôtres" nantais qui avaient écouté chez toi, il m'en avait parlé lors de leur passage à la maison, visiblement ils avaient beaucoup aimé. S'ils passent par là, peut être pourront ils donner leur avis à Jacobus.

Pour les pavillons, le MDF cintrable ne devrait pas poser de problème.

stp fait nous un retour sur ce matériau qui me semble vraiment fabuleux.

DAvid

Promis.
Ce week-end ci, je fais un gabarit sérieux pour être sûr d'obtenir quelque chose de correct.

Patrice

Hello, Jacob

In fact, it is not so easy for me to compare full range speakers with the horns because I use full range speakers only for home theater.
The open baffle is for central channel and TQWT enclosures are for the rear effect channels.

But the coherence is not so bad. Else, it would be unpleasant.
I find in all these kinds of speakers something like a "family likeness".

I really think that the only way to make your own judgment is to listen to the speakers and horn you would like to use!
I don't know where you are from, and my own location, Brittany is probably fairly out of reach. I am sorry, but I don't know anybody else owning these speakers!

best regards

Patrice

Hello Patrice,

I understand it is difficult to compare and to judge your own speakers. I really appreciate your efforts. Before I came to this forum I knew nothing, now I have at least some answers to my question. Knowing that you are happy with them and knowing that you have experience with some full range speakers gives already a lot confidence. And that is probably the main thing I was looking for, somebody who has good experience with them. You took away some doubts I had about the low crossover point. It is prob. indeed to far away to stop by and listen to your speakers, although, if it is Bretigny your talking about it is about 500Km. Maybe something I could combine with a trip in France. But it is more likely that I would just give it a try and build them. I hope that they will be as dynamic as I hope, and can handle the 30dB peaks some classical music contains without compression and distorting, but I think that will not be an issue.

Thank you for your input,

regards,

Jacob

Helle, Jacob



Unfortunately, it is not Bretigny, but Brittany, area in west of France with Rennes as chief city. You'd have to add 350km!



I'd be surprised that these speakers could disappoint you.
In the opposite, I think the onky risk is to make you a "horn addict"!

Good luck!

Patrice

Well, that could indeed happen....A horn addict. But then I also need ofcourse a nice tube amp in the future

Hello Diafan,

Another thing I forgot to ask is about the Onken enclosure and the 285gmf driver. So far my questions were all about the horn.

How is the quality of the bass? is it tight? or boomy? and do you not miss bass content as it goes only down to 48Hz if I'm correct?

regards,

Jacob